MMTWltt  )r 


HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 

SJXTY-THIRD  CONGRESS 
Second  Session 


H.  R.  11749 

A  BILL  TO  CREATE  A  NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY  AT  THE 
SEAT  OF  THE  FEDERAL  GOVERNMENT 


•  • 
STATEMENT  OF 

DR.  CHARLES  W.  DABNEY 


FEBRUARY  27,  1914 


# 


WASHINGTON 

GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE 
1914 


COMMITTEE  ON  EDUCATION. 

House  op  Representatives,  Sixty-third  Congress. 


DUDLEY  M.  HUGHES,  Georgia,  Chairman. 


WILLIAM  W.  RUCKER,  Missouri. 
ROBERT  L.  DOUGHTON,  North.  Carolina. 
JOHN  W.  ABERCROMBIE,  Alabama. 

J.  THOMPSON  BAKER,  New  Jersey. 
JOHN  R.  CLANCY,  New  York. 

THOMAS  C.  THACHER,  Massachusetts. 
STEPHEN  A.  HOXWORTH,  Illinois. 


JAMES  F.  BURKE,  Pennsylvania. 
CALEB  POWERS,  Kentucky. 

HORACE  M.  TOWNER,  Iowa. 
EDMUND  PLATT,  New  York. 

ALLEN  T.  TREADWAY,  Massachusetts 
SIMEON  D.  FESS,  Ohio. 

ARTHUR  R.  RUPLEY,  Pennsylvania. 


James  L.  Fort,  Clerk. 


2 


3?  r*  73 

\l /Y\^  V\  6-^* 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


STATEMENT  OF  ME.  CHAELES  W.  DABNEY,  PEESIDENT  OF  THE 

UNIVEESITY  OF  CINCINNATI,  CINCINNATI,  OHIO. 

.  * 


2 

lo 

H. 


U-) 


Dr.  Dabney.  The  very  persistence  of  the  movement  for  the  estab¬ 
lishment  of  a  national  university,  after  a  century  of  intermittent  dis¬ 
cussion  without  any  progress,  would  seem  of  itself  to  show  that  there 
was  not  only  a  great  need  felt  for  it  but  that  there  were  forces  be¬ 
hind  it  which  must  ultimately  bring  it  to  life.  The  gradual  piling 
up  of  organized  influences  in  support  of  the  proposal  is  one  of  the 
striking  things  in  our  American  educational  history,  and  proves  that 
there  is  something  behind  the  movement  more  powerful  than  the 
sentiment  growing  out  of  George  Washington’s  bequest.  My  pur¬ 
pose,  therefore,  is  to  show  that  the  proposal  arises  naturally  out  of 
the  needs  of  the  educational  and  scientific  institutions  of  the  country, 
especially  of  the  great  State  universities  and  agricultural  and  mechan¬ 
ical  colleges,  and  of  the  scientific  bureaus  and  other  departments  of 
Government  here  in  Washington.  My  thesis,  then,  is  that  the  national 
university  is  necessary  for  the  completion  of  these  institutions, 
State  and  National,  and  will  therefore  be  rather  an  evolution  than  a 
creation,  a  development  out  of  existing  institutions  and  not  an  en¬ 
tirely  new  establishment.  In  this  broad  sense  the  national  univer¬ 
sity  already  exists  in  the  great  libraries,  museums,  and  scientific 
bureaus  carried  on  by  the  Nation  at  the  Capital,  and  in  the  great 
surveys  covering  the  country,  conducted  under  the  auspices  of  the 
National  Government. 

Undoubtedly  George  Washington  had  in  mind  the  establishment 
at  the  Capital  of  a  national  university  of  the  type  that  existed  in 
his  day  at  the  capitals  of  the  various  continental  countries;  that  is, 
an  institution  for  general  higher  and  professional  education.  The 
^development  in  this  country  of  great  private  institutions,  and  espe¬ 
cially  of  the  State  universities,  the  characteristic  institutions  of 
America,  has  entirely  removed  the  necessity  for  this  type  of  insti¬ 
tution  in  Washington.  Failure  to  recognize  this  has  caused  great 
confusion  in  the  past  and  is  chiefly  responsible  for  the  failure  of  the 
earlier  advocates  of  the  national  university  to  impress  their  views 
/upon  the  educational  authorities  of  the  country.  That  an  ordinary 
university,  no  matter  how  great  and  rich  it  might  be,  was  not  needed 
at  Washington  has  been  clearly  recognized  by  all  who  have  discussed 
the  matter  in  the  last  20  years.  During  this  time  the  demand  for  a 
great  graduate  institution  which  should  correlate  the  scientific 
bureaus  and  departments  and  be  the  head  of  the  universities  of 
the  country — an  institution,  in  short,  which  would  be  a  university 
for  university-trained  men,  rather  than  a  popular  institution — has 
become  steadily  greater.  The  chief  demand  has  been  for  an  agency 


3 


4 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


which  would  open  up  to  the  students  of  the  country  the  vast  stores  of 
material  for  study  found  in  the  National  Capital.  In  order  to  do  this  it 
has  been  apparent  to  all  that  some  organization  of  the  university  type 
was  necessary.  Every  proposal  made  in  recent  years  has  been 
based  on  this  opinion — that  tremendous  resources  for  study  and  re¬ 
search  are  going  to  waste  in  Washington  and  that  some  organization 
should  be  provided  to  make  them  available  for  advanced  students  of 
history,  government,  economics,  natural  science  and  its  applications. 

In  recent  years  the  opinion  has  also  been  growing  that  the  Gov¬ 
ernment  itself  should  promote  such  study  as  a  means  of  preparing 
men  for  its  own  service  and  of  developing  a  scientific  knowdedge  and 
public  opinion  which  would  aid  Congress,  the  State  legislatures,  and 
the  municipalities  in  giving  the  people  better  government.  It  is  evi¬ 
dent  also  that  the  ordinary  methods  of  the  civil  service  are  not  meet¬ 
ing  the  demands  of  the  Government,  States,  and  cities  for  scientific 
experts,  and  the  work  of  some  of  the  great  State  universities,  like 
the  University  of  Wisconsin,  in  cooperating  with  and  serving  their 
State  legislatures  and  administering  their  State  commissions  and 
bureaus  has  led  many  to  believe  that  the  national  university  would 
be  of  similar  service  to  our  National  Government.  The  purpose  of 
the  present  writer,  then,  is  to  try  to  trace  the  development  of  this, 
which  he  believes  to  be  the  true  conception  of  the  national  university. 

The  first  definite  formulation  of  this  conception  that  we  have 
record  of  was  in  a  resolution  of  Congress  approved  April  12,  1892, 
which,  after  referring  to  the  large  collections  in  Washington  and 
the  duty  of  the  Government  to — 

promote  the  work  of  education  by  attracting  students  to  avail  themselves  of  the 
advantages  aforesaid  under  the  direction  of  competent  instructors— 

Declared  that — 

the  facilities  for  research  and  illustration  in  the  following  and  other  govern¬ 
mental  collections  in  the  city  of  Washington  for  the  promotion  of  knowledge 
shall  be  accessible  under  proper  rules  to  the  scientific  investigators  and  to 
students  of  any  institution  of  higher  education  now  incorporated  or  hereafter 
to  he  incorporated  in  the  District  of  Columbia. 

Following  this  was  a  list  of  all  the  chief  Government  institutions. 
The  limitation  to  institutions  in  the  District  of  Columbia  was  re¬ 
moved  by  act  of  March  3,  1901,  so  as  to  extend  these  provisions — 

to  duly  qualified  individual  students  and  graduates  of  institutions  of  learning  in 
the  several  States  and  Territories,  as  well  as  in  the  District  of  Columbia. 

This  resolution  accomplished  little,  for  these  collections  are  scat¬ 
tered  all  over  Washington  in  the  care  of  officials  not  primarily  in 
terested  in  students.  Some  investigators  were  able  to  hunt  up  the 
material  they  wanted,  but  their  general  failure  to  do  so  caused 
next  a  movement  to  form  a  central  bureau  or  clearing  house  to 
which  students  could  go  for  information  with  regard  to  the  facilities 
for  study  and  the  openings  for  scientific  work  in  Washington.  In 
the  absence  of  information  describing  these  facilities  it  had  proved 
almost  futile  for  students  to  come  here  on  their  own  hook  and  seek 
to  find  what  they  wanted.  The  ordinary  student  would  be  lost  in 
the  mazes  of  the  Government  bureaucracy.  As  President  Hadley 
said  some  years  later — 

the  student  who  comes  to  Washington  to-day  to  get  his  scientific  training  in 
the  Government  departments  comes  under  his  own  impulse  and  at  his  own 
risk. 


Call  number 


CALL  SLIP  FOR  RESERVED  BOOKS 

er  AUTHOR 


TITLE 


^  2 


Reserved  books  are  to  be  consulted  in  the  Reading  rooms  only. 
The  signer  of  the  call  slip  must  return  the  book  to  the  Loan  desk  before 
leaving  the  room. 

Reserved  books  may  not  be  loaned  from  the  library  except  when 
the  Reading  rooms  are  closed;  and  when  so  loaned  they  must  be  re¬ 
turned  by  the  time  th 
borrower  to  a  fine  of 
for  every  hour  after  t 


Signature  of  borrowe 


-UU.aX  ^ 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


5 


The  Association  of  Agricultural  Colleges  and  Experiment  Sta¬ 
tions  renewed  the  agitation,  therefore,  by  appointing  at  the  meeting 
in  July  1897,  a  committee  to — 

investigate,  consider,  and  if  practicable,  devise  a  plan  whereby  graduate 
students  may  have  access  to  and  use  of  the  Congressional  Library  and  the  col¬ 
lections  in  the  Smithsonian  Institution  and  the  scientific  bureaus  of  the  va¬ 
rious  departments  at  Washington.  *  *  *  ;  the  composition  and  organiza¬ 

tion  of  such  a  staff  as  may  be  necessary  to  properly  coordinate  and  direct  such 
work  and  offer  an  outline  of  such  legislation  as  may  be  necessary  to  effect  the 
general  purposes  of  this  resolution. 

In  response  to  this  resolution,  the  committee  reported  that  they 
thought  the  time  was  ripe  for  action,  and  that  some  existing  agency 
should  be  found  to  undertake  such  work  of  organization,  coordina¬ 
tion,  and  direction,  and  that  they  had  therefore  turned  to  the  Smith¬ 
sonian  Institution  as  the  one  best  fitted  for  the  purpose.1 

The  matter  was  duly  presented  to  the  Board  of  Regents  of  the 
Smithsonian  Institution  at  its  meeting  on  January  24,  1900,  but 
on  the  advice  of  the  secretary,  the  institution  declined  to  take  any 
action  and  laid  the  matter  over  until  the  following  year.  When  the 
board  met  again  the  Carnegie  Institution  had  been  founded,  and 
the  matter  is  not  mentioned  again  in  the  proceedings  of  the  Smith¬ 
sonian  Institution  as  far  as  I  have  read. 

Mr.  Fess.  Would  it  interfere  with  your  remarks  if  I  should  ask 
you  questions? 

Dr.  Dabney.  Not  at  all. 

Mr.  Fess.  Would  the  plan  of  utilizing  the  departments  here  inter¬ 
fere  in  any  way  with  the  research  work  that  would  be  carried  on  ? 

Dr.  Dabney.  I  can  not  see  how  it  would.  I  think  it  would  aid 
and  further  the  work  of  the  Government  and  improve  it  vastly,  just 
as  it  aids  and  improves  every  scientific  investigator  to  teach  along 
the  line  of  the  subject  he  is  investigating.  I  think  the  universal 
verdict  of  the  educators  is  that  it  helps  an  investigator  if  he  can 
have  a  small  body  of  students  to  teach,  and  that  he  can  better  under¬ 
stand  his  subject  by  explaining  it  to  others. 

Now,  I  am  afraid  my  friend  Dr.  James  is  laboring  under  the 
impression  that  the  proposal  to  found  the  Washington  Memorial 
Institution  was  intended  as  antagonistic  to  the  national  university 
movement.  It  was  not.  It  was  simply  a  movement  to  accomplish 
some  small  part  of  what  the  national  university  would  accomplish. 
It  was  projected  by  friends  of  this  movement  in  Washington  at  the 
time,  because  we  were  almost  in  despair  that  anything  would  ever 
be  done. 

The  Washington  Academy  of  Sciences  next  took  the  matter  up 
in  connection  with  the  Washington  Memorial  Association.  The  ob¬ 
ject  of  the  Washington  Academy  of  Sciences  was  to  federate  the 
various  scientific  societies  in  the  National  Capital  for  the  promotion 
of  science  in  the  broadest  sense.  The  Washington  Memorial  Asso¬ 
ciation  was  a  society  of  ladies  and  gentlemen  who  had  undertaken 
the  erection  of  a  building  in  the  Capital  as  a  memorial  to  Washing¬ 
ton,  and  to  provide  a  home  for  a  bureau  to  give  information  and  act 
as  a  clearing  house  for  students  and  Government  officials.  These 
two  organizations  agreed  that,  although  American  universities  had 
so  developed  since  Washington’s  time  that  they  fulfilled  many  of 

1  P.  58,  Bulletin  G5,  Dept,  of  Agric.  Proceedings  Twelfth  Annual  Convention.  1898. 


6 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


the  objects  of  the  national  university  as  he  saw  them,  there  was  still 
great  need  of  a  bureau  in  the  city  of  Washington,  which  would 
facilitate  the  use  of  the  scientific  and  other  resources  of  the  Govern¬ 
ment  for  purposes  of  investigation  and  should  cooperate  with  the 
colleges  in  directing  their  professors  and  students  where  they  could 
find  these  resources. 

As  a  means  of  accomplishing  these  objects,  these  associations  pro¬ 
posed  the  establishment  of  an  institution  in  Washington,  separate 
from  the  Government,  which  would,  through  a  small  corps  of  officers, 
and  perhaps  a  small  faculty  of  instructors,  bring  together  the 
students  and  the  material  and  scientific  men  in  the  National  Capital. 
A  committee  of  the  academy  was  appointed  to  cooperate  with  the 
committees  of  the  Association  of  Agricultural  Colleges  and  Experi¬ 
ments  Stations  and  the  National  Education  Association  in  the  effort 
to  create  a  new  organization  to  accomplish  their  purposes.  This 
committee  drafted  and  secured  the  passage  of  the  act  approved  by 
Congress  March  3,  1901,  extending  the  privileges  of  the  Washington 
departments  to  all  students  of  the  country,  and  also  drafted  a  plan 
of  organization  which  was  in  brief  as  follows : 

A  private  foundation,  independent  of  Government  support  or  con¬ 
trol,  was  proposed,  which  was  to  facilitate  the  use  of  the  scientific 
and  other  resources  of  the  Government  for  research  and  cooperate 
with  universities,  colleges,  and  individuals  in  securing  to  properly 
qualified  persons  opportunities  for  advanced  study  and  research. 
The  policy,  control,  and  management  of  the  institution  was  to  be 
vested  in  a  board  of  15  trustees,  and  in  addition  there  should  be  an 
advisory  board  composed  of  the  heads  of  the  executive  departments, 
bureaus,  etc.  The  articles  of  incorporation,  which  were  issued  under 
the  laws  of  the  District  of  Columbia,  May  16,  1901,  establishing  the 
Washington  Memorial  Institution  with  the  object  of  creating  a  me¬ 
morial  to  George  Washington,  to  promote  science  and  literature, 
provide  opportunities  and  facilities  for  higher  learning,  and  to  facili¬ 
tate  the  utilization  of  the  scientific  and  other  resources  of  the  Gov¬ 
ernment  for  purposes  of  research  and  higher  education.  Fifteen 
trustees  were  elected,  including  a  regent  of  the  Smithsonian  Institu¬ 
tion,  a  number  of  university  presidents  and  heads  of  Washington 
bureaus.  President  Daniel  C.  Gilman  was  elected  director,  with  the 
duty  of  making  all  “  arrangements  for  cooperation  between  the  insti¬ 
tution,  on  the  one  hand,  and  the  Government,  universities,  learned 
societies,  and  individuals  on  the  other.”  Investigations  were  made 
as  to  facilities  and  instructors  available  and  the  expense  of  providing 
a  limited  number  of  lecturers. 

These  would  be  mostly  voluntary,  selected  from  the  Government 
itself. 

A  report  made  to  the  board  at  this  time  by  the  head  of  one  Gov¬ 
ernment  survey  said : 

So  far  as  America  is  concerned,  it  is  safe  to  say  tliat  at  Washington  the 
facilities  for  higher  education  in  the  sciences  are  unequaled.  No  other  city  in 
the  Union  has  so  large  a  corps  of  eminent  men  engaged  in  original  research  in 
the  fields  of  geology,  geography,  anthropology,  zoology,  botany,  chemistry,  and 
astronomy. 

The  committee  venture  to  add.  among  other  subjects,  meteorology, 
political  and  social  science,  and  kindred  subjects. 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


•7 


Most  of  these  men  are  employed  and  paid  by  the  Government,  so  that  their 
services  in  lecturing  and  superintending  laboratory  work  could  be  held  at  a 
trifling  expense.  All  that  is  needed  is  organization,  a  home,  and  a  small  fund. 
Incredible  as  it  seems,  an  excellent  course  in  science,  comprising  350  lectures 
and  140  evenings  of  laboratory  work  by  40  different  specialists,  can  be  given 
in  this  city  for  the  insignificant  sum  of  $5,000 — the  salary  of  a  single  professor 
in  our  leading  universities.  The  biological  part  of  the  course  would  be  par¬ 
ticularly  strong,  the  plans  having  progressed  so  far  as  that  a  course  of  150 
lectures  and  140  evenings  of  laboratory  work  has  been  arranged  for  in  zoology 
and  botany.  In  these  branches  special  emphasis  could  be  given  to  the  system¬ 
atic  and  economic  sides,  neglected  in  most  of  our  universities.  The  instruc¬ 
tion  would  be  given  by  at  least  20  specialists,  each  proficient  in  some  line  of 
biological  research.  Courses  of  equal  merit  can  be  arranged  in  the  courses 
above  mentioned.  As  a  recent  writer  has  said,  the  genius  and  training  are 
already  here,  most  of  the  facilities  are  already  provided,  and  little  remains  1 6 
be  done  save  the  coordination  of  existing  instrumentalities.  It  is  of  the  utmost 
importance  that  the  early  steps  be  guided  by  wisdom  and  experience. 

Gentlemen,  that  report  was  written  in  1900.  How  much  greater 
the  opportunities  are  to-day  you  can  judge.  The  Government  de¬ 
partments  have  all  grown  immensely.  This  is  a  summary  of  a  report 
prepared  to  show  what  could  be  done  by  the  men  in  Washington  at 
that  time.  I  think  that  was  a  little  too  optimistic  in  the  matter  of 
expense ;  I  think  it  would  be  a  little  larger,  but  there  was  a  good  deal 
of  enthusiasm  for  this  scheme  for  a  small  institution  at  the  time 
this  proposal  was  drawn  up.  But  it  was  looked  upon  merely  as  a 
beginning. 

Mr.  Fess.  From  the  standpoint  of  an  educator,  what  would  you 
say  about  the  expense?  Would  you  try  to  get  through  with  a  little? 

Dr.  Dabney.  Well,  I  think  the  Nation  demands  a  great  university 
here.  I  dislike  to  minimize  it,  but  we  thought  at  that  time  that  a 
vast  deal  could  be  done  with  a  little  money,  but  that  was  because  we 
had  so  much  here  already.  For  the  establishment  of  the  national 
university  now,  there  ought  to  be  an  ample  fund,  because  I  do  not 
believe  the  people  of  the  United  States  want  to  begin  so  big  a  thing 
in  a  small  way.  But  any  beginning  will  be  better  than  no  beginning 
at  all. 

With  plans  of  this  kind  in  mind,  it  was  proposed  to  raise  for  this 
initial  private  institution,  an  endowment  to  provide  $50,000  a  year 
to  pay  the  expenses  of  such  a  central  bureau  and  the  salaries  of  a 
limited  number  of  instructors.  To  raise  this  fund,  the  Washington 
institution  appointed  a  committee  to  confer  with  various  gentlemen 
supposed  to  be  interested  in  the  advancement  of  science  in  Wash¬ 
ington.1  Among  those  approached  for  funds  was  Mr.  Andrew  Car¬ 
negie,  who  took  the  matter  under  consideration.  The  plan  pre¬ 
sented  to  Mr.  Carnegie  was  practically  as  above  outlined.  About 
this  time,  however,  a  powerful  opposition  to  the  national  university 
plan  developed,  chiefly  among  the  privately  endowed  institutions 
in  the  eastern  section  "of  the  country.  When  it  became  known  to 
these  institutions  that  Mr.  Andrew  Carnegie  had  under  consideration 
a  proposition  to  finance  an  institution  in  Washington  for  teaching 
and  research  they  exerted  their  influence  to  induce  him  to  leave  out 
all  teaching  features  and  make  it,  not  a  university  or  institution  open 
to  students,  but  an  institution  for  special  investigations.  They  suc¬ 
ceeded,  and  the  result  was  the  Carnegie  Institution,  the  establishment 
of  which  Mr.  Carnegie  announced  in  his  letter  to  the  Secretary  of 


i  Bulletin  65,  Department  of  Agriculture,  cit.  super. 


8 


NATIONAL  UNIVEKSITY. 


the  Smithsonian  Institution,  dated  December  27,  1901.  There  seems, 
therefore,  to  be  no  question  that  the  plans  and  arguments  laid  before 
Mr.  Carnegie  for  the  Washington  institution  for  both  teaching  and 
research  first  interested  him  in  this  general  subject,  for  it  was  the 
gentlemen  of  the  committee  of  the  Washington  institution  who  pre¬ 
sented  the  cause  to  him.  The  first  board  was  made  up  of  some  of 
these  same  gentlemen,  and  the  first  president  of  the  Carnegie  Insti¬ 
tution  was  Dr.  Daniel  C.  Gilman,  who  had  been  chosen  as  the  director 
of  the  Washington  institution.  In  this  sense,  therefore,  the  Carnegie 
Institution  was  a  substitute  for  the  Washington  Institution  proposed 
by  the  Washington  Academy  of  Sciences  and  the  Washington  Me¬ 
morial  Association. 

The  Carnegie  Institution  represents,  of  course,  a  great  idea. 

No  one  can  regret  that  those  little  proposals  resulted  in  this  tre¬ 
mendous  result.  Looking  back  at  it,  I  can  see  now  that  it  was  well. 
From  my  point  of  view,  I  would  say  that  it  was  providential  that  the 
little  private  institution  failed  and  the  great  Carnegie  Institution  for 
Research  was  formed. 

Mr.  Fess.  In  your  judgment,  President  Dabney,  would  this  na¬ 
tional  university  displace  any  phases  of  this  proposition,  the  Car¬ 
negie  Institution  here? 

Dr.  Dabney.  Oh,  not  at  all.  The  Carnegie  Institution  does  not 
meet  the  need  of  a  national  university.  It  is  endowed  for  special  re¬ 
search  work,  and  it  can,  after  all,  only  endow  a  few  lines  of  research. 
The  Carnegie  Institution,  as  far  as  it  goes,  is,  to  my  mind,  another 
asset  for  the  national  university  and  another  reason  for  the  national 
university. 

It  has  already  done  a  vast  deal  for  the  advancement  of  scientific 
research,  and  we  are  sure  it  will  always  be  an  honor  to  our  country 
and  a  benefit  to  the  whole  world,  but  it  does  not  meet  the  needs  of  the 
situation.  The  Carnegie  Institution  is  a  foundation  for  the  promo¬ 
tion  of  special  scientific  research  by  private  individuals,  by  societies 
or  institutions.  It  has  no  relation  to  the  National  Government  or  its 
bureaus,  and  can  only  in  a  very  limited  way  serve  the  needs  of  the 
scholars  of  the  country.  It  is  not  open  to  all  students.  It  is  a  pri¬ 
vate  institution  in  this  sense,  and  can  not  cooperate  as  freely  with  the 
Government  bureaus  as  will  a  national  institution.  The  need  of  a 
national  institution,  therefore,  remains  just  as  urgent  as  before  its 
establishment. 

Another  influence  to  be  considered  in  shaping  the  institution  of  the 
future  must  now  be  mentioned.  This  is  the  need  of  the  Government 
itself  for  scientific  workers  and  the  failure  of  the  ordinary  civil 
service  to  provide  for  them.  The  civil  service  furnishes  a  very  good 
method  for  securing  clerks,  statisticians,  or  ordinary  officials  for  the 
Government  service,  but  it  does  not  furnish  adequate  methods  for 
securing  scientific  experts.  Therefore,  the  almost  uniform  policy  in 
the  Government  laboratories  has  been  to  train  these  men  on  the  spot, 
i.  e.  in  the  surveys  or  laboratories.  The  Geological  Survey,  the 
Forestry  Service,  the  Biological  Survey,  and  the  various  scientific 
laboratories  have  followed  this  plan  for  years.  One  thing  needed  was 
some  method  of  bringing  the  young  men  who  desired  to  enter  upon 
such  careers  into  correspondence  with  the  directors  of  the  laboratories 
who  wanted  them.  V  means  to  this  end  has  always  been  lacking,  and 


N  ATI  O  N  A  L  UN  I  VERST  T  \  . 


9 


is  still  lacking  in  a  great  measure,  though  something  has  been  done 
in  recent  years  to  fill  the  gap. 

Let  me  give  you  an  illustration  from  my  experience :  When  I  was 
in  the  Department  of  Agriculture  I  was  walking  one  day  through  a 
museum  and  I  stopped  before  a  case  of  specimens  and  saw  an  old  one- 
armed  gentleman  working  away  as  best  he  could  with  his  single 
hand  cleaning  the  specimens.  I  said,  “  My  man,  how  do  you  happen 
to  be  doing  this?  ”  He  said,  u  I  do  not  know;  I  have  been  doing  it 
for  a  number  of  years.”  “  What  is  your  position?  ”  I  asked.  “  I  am 
a  messenger  in  the  department,”  he  said.  “What  is  your  salary?  ” 
“  Seventy-five  dollars.”  “  Would  you  not  rather  do  something 
else?  ”  He  said,  “  Yes;  I  am  an  old  man  and  I  would  rather  do  the 
regular  work  of  a  messenger.”  T  thought  it  over  and  remembering 
a  young  man  in  one  of  the  colleges  who  was  studying  fust  that  line 
it  occurred  to  me  I  could  help  them  both.  So  T  got  the  old  man  a 
job  where  he  could  be  out  of  doors  and  the  young  college  graduate 
was  put  to  work  on  the  specimens..  I  did  not  follow  the  old  man, 
but  the  young  man  got  the  opportunity  he  needed  for  scientific  re¬ 
search,  with  the  result  that  he  afterwards  became  a  professor  in  an 
agricultural  college  in  the  country,  and  is  now  head  of  an  important 
division  in  the  Department  of  Agriculture.  You  see,  the  young  man 
got  just  the  opportunity  he  was  seeking  for  his  development.  Now, 
gentlemen,  there  are  hundreds  of  such  places  that  should  be  filled  by 
such  young  men.  They  are  now  being  filled  through  the  civil  service 
by  people  who  too  often  have  no  particular  interest  in  doing  that  par¬ 
ticular  kind  of  work,  and  therefore  they  do  it  mechanically.  There 
are  thousands  of  opportunities  for  students  to  do  ordinary  work  that 
is  mechanical  for  other  people,  but  which  they  would  do  with  a 
scientific  interest  because  it  gave  them  an  opportunity  for  study. 
There  are  a  great  many  opportunities  for  scientific  research  in  the 
laboratories  and  even  in  tin4  general  offices  of  the  Government  that 
ought  to  be  open  to  graduates  of  this  kind. 

Mr.  Fess.  Would  efficient  work  in  the  department  interfere  with 
their  study? 

Dr.  Dabney.  I  do  not  see  how  it  could ;  it  should  improve  it ;  I 
believe  that  it  would  help  the  work  of  the  department.  It  always 
pays  to  put  interest  and  brain  in  your  work. 

Mr.  Towner.  Have  you  not  an  illustration  of  the  effect  of  this 
cooperative  work  in  your  Cincinnati  college? 

Dr.  Dabney.  Yes,  sir;  T  am  coming  to  that  a  little  later.  I  think 
the  cooperative  plan  of  instruction  can  be  extensively  and  usefully 
applied  in  the  Government  departments.  Tt  could  be  carried  out 
much  better,  of  course,  if  we  had  a  national  university  here.  This 
has  been  shown  by  the  work  of  some  of  the  departments  already. 

In  the  report  of  the  Secretary  of  Agriculture  for  1808,  for  example, 
we  find  this  official  recognition  of  this  practice  of  workers  in  the 
departments : 

The  scientific  divisions  of  tlie  Department  of  Agriculture  can  to  some  extent 
provide  postgraduate  facilities.  We  can  direct  the  studies  of  a  few  bright  young 
people  in  each  division,  and  when  the  department  requires  help,  as  it  often  does, 
these  -young  scientists  will  he  available.  They  should  he  graduates  of  agri¬ 
cultural  colleges  and  conic  to  the  department  through  a  system, of  examination 
that  will  bring  the  best  and  be  fair  to  all.  The  opening  of  our  laboratories  for 
postgraduate  work  will  provide  an  eligible  list  from  which  to  fill  Vacancies  as 
they  occur,  supply  temporary  agents,  and  he  a  source  from  which  State  insti- 

73229—14 - 2 


10 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


tutions  might  get  ussistunts  in  scientific  lines.  (Yearbook,  l>ep::rtment  of  Agri¬ 
culture,  1898.  pi*.  18,  19.) 

The  Secretary  goes  on  to  say  that  to  meet  this  situation  he  has 
inaugurated  a  new  class  called  u  student  assistants."  The  Forestry 
Service  carried  on  for  a  number  of  years  a  regular  school  for  the 
training  of  assistants.  The  rank  of  “  forest  student  ”  was  created  and 
the  young  man  was  instructed  both  in  laboratory  and  the  field  in 
preparation  for  appointment  to  full  service. 

The  Geological  Survey  has  followed  the  same  plan  with  good  suc¬ 
cess.  Writing  in  Science  as  early  as  June  28,  1001.  the  then  Director 
of  the  Survey,  Charles  1).  Walcott,  wrote: 


In  the  GeologicnJ  Survey  gradimt'e  students,  being  the  best  men  available  for 
temporary  fieid  assistants,  were  given  preference,  but  as  the  development  of  the 
work  progressed,  including  other  scientific  bureaus  of  the  Government,  it  became 
impossible  to  find  men  qualified  for  the  permanent  positions  opened  to  them. 
Graduate  students  were  obtainable,  blit  they  were  without  practical  training. 
The  Civil  Service  Commission  was  called  on,  but  has  had  no  eligible*  on  its  lists. 
The  only  way  out  of  the  difficulty  seemed  to  be  for  the  heads  of  Government 
scientific  bureaus  to  select  bright,  well-educated  men  and  train  them.  This  they 
have  been  doing  for  several  years.  The  Geological  Survey  cooperates  with  such 
institutions  of  learning  as  are  willing  to  give  the  advance  instruction  neces¬ 
sary  to  fit  students  to  engage  in  the  special  lines  of  investigation  carried  on  by 
it.  This  cooperation  consists  mainly  in  the  employment  of  graduate  students 
and  instructors.  A  high  standard  is  maintained  by  the  character  of  the  exami¬ 
nations  held. 


And  the  director  goes  on  to  give  a  list,  including  Harvard,  Johns 
Hopkins,  University  of  Chicago,  Yale,  Cornell,  Wisconsin,  Stanford, 
Amherst,  and  other  colleges,  all  of  whom  supplied  two  or  more,  and 
some  20  other  institutions,  each  of  which  supplied  a  single  assistant 
to  this  one  survey  in  one  year.  He  says  that  50  per  cent  become  per¬ 
manent  members  of  the  survey,  and  the  others  return  to  the  States  to 
do  valuable  work  there. 

There  is  a  regular  medical  school  in  connection  with  the  library 
and  museum  of  the  Surgeon  General’s  Office.  This  school  is  only 
open  to  the  young  men  who  have  been  admitted  to  the  Government 
service,  though  medical  students  at  Washington  colleges  are  per¬ 
mitted  to  use  the  library.  The  Bureau  of  Standards  also  carries  on 
regular  classes.  The  report  says: 


The  development  of  researches  in  this  bureau  must  necessarily  go  hand  in 
hand  with  the  development  of  man  to  make  the  researches;  hence,  the  edu¬ 
cational  side  of  this  bureau  is  much  more  fully  developed  and  much  more  suc¬ 
cessful  'than  that  of  most  others. 

Other  bureaus  and  laboratories  in  which  men  are  being  trained,  or 
would  be  admitted  are  enumerated  in  the  report  as  follows:  Public 
Health  Service,  Bureau  of  Fisheries,  Naval  Observatory,  Patent 
Office,  Bureau  of  Education,  Bureau  of  Manufactures,  Coast  Survey, 
Bureau  of  Statistics,  and  the  War  Records  Offices  of  both  the  Navy 
and  War  Departments.  The- bureaus  of  the  Department  of  Agricul¬ 
ture,  Geological  Survey,  etc.,  have  been  mentioned  above.  In  all, 
there  are  some  40  distinct  institutions,  bureaus,  libraries,  or  labora¬ 
tories  that  would  be  glad  to  take  students  for  research  or  training  or 
have  already  done  so. 

The  history  of  the  department  shows  that  this  is  the  way  in  which 
many  of  the  distinguished  men  in  the  Government  service  have  been 
trained.  Many  young  men  trained  in  the  Government  service  have 


X A TION A  L  U NIVERSTT  Y . 


11 


also  gone  out  into  universities  and  technical  institutions  of  the  coun¬ 
try.  In  fact,. for  a  long  time  it  was  the  only  way  in  which  certain 
classes  of  experts,  like  topographical  engineers  and  geologists  could 
be  trained.  There  were  no  other  places  in  the  country  where  they 
could  get  this  special  education.  Until  the  agricultural  and  mechani¬ 
cal  colleges  were  established,  the  Government  service  offered  almost 
the  only  method  of  getting  training  in  agricultural  chemistry,  eco¬ 
nomic  entomology,  horticultural  science,  and  in  sciences  connected 
with  the  animal  industry.  Although  many  of  the  universities  taught 
the  theory  of  geology  and  these  other  sciences,  they  offered  almost  no 
opportunities  for  practical  training. 

The  colleges  were  for  a  long  time  institutions  apart  from  real  life 
and  the  real  practice  of  the  sciences:  so  that  the  Government  or  State 
services  offered  young  men  their  only  opportunities  for  this  training. 
The  same  was  true  in  a  large  degree  also  of  economics  and  political 
science.  There  were  only  a  very  fe^wchairs  in  these  subjects  in  our 
country  until  after  the  Civil  War.  There  was  only  one  chair  in  polit¬ 
ical  science  in  the  Southern  States  before  1880,  and  that  was  the  one 
founded  by  Francis  Lieber,  a  German  scholar,  at  the  State  College 
of  South  Carolina.  Government  office  offered  the  only  opportunity 
for’ study  in  these  lines  also.  Illustrations  of  eminent  men  who  have 
been  trained  in  the  Government  service  will  occur  to  all  of  you. 
It  may  not  be  improper  to  mention  two  men  distinguished  for  their 
service  to  their  country  in  different  departments  who  are  still  living : 
The  present  Counsellor  for  the  State  Department,  perhaps  the  great¬ 
est  authority  on  international  law  and  connected  subjects  in  this 
country,  commenced  his  career  as  a  law  clerk  in  that  department. 
He  has  held  the  highest  professorship  in  the  country  in  this  subject, 
and  has  been  called  back  to  Washington  repeatedly  for  the  service 
of  his  country.  The  present  Secretary  of  the  Smithsonian  Institu¬ 
tion,  a  position  which  we  rightly  regard  as  the  deanship  of  the  sci¬ 
entific  profession  in  this  country,  commenced  his  career  as  an  assist¬ 
ant  geologist,  first  on  the  New  York  State  survey  and  very  soon 
afterwards  on  the  United  States  Geological  Survey,  where  he  worked 
through  all  of  the  different  grades  up  to  the  directorship.  He  was' 
the  man  who  perfected  the  plans  for  the  geological  survey  of  this 
country.  I  might  give  you  the  names  of  hundreds  of  men  who  have 
been  trained  by  this  method  for  the  service  of  science  and  their 
country.  Still,  unquestionably,  the  greatest  difficulty  that  the  Gov¬ 
ernment  encounters  is  this  one  of  getting  men  to  do  its  work.  I  can 
assure  you  that  the  same  is  true  with  regard  to  the  work  of  the 
universities  and  the  scientific  work  of  the  States.  It  is  men  with  train¬ 
ing,  not  mere  learning,  that  we  want  everywhere.  The  burning  ques¬ 
tion  to-day  is  how  to  get  men  who  not  only  know  things,  but  who 
know  how  to  do  things.  The  Government  service  offers  the  best 
opportunities  in  this  country  for  training  men  of  this  type.  Why 
should  it  nof  be  used  in  a  more  systematic  and  liberal  manner  for 
training  the  young  men  of  the  country?  I  contend  that  it  should 
be,  and  that  to  this  end  there  should  be  an  institution  in  Washington 
which  would  introduce  these  young  men  into  the  Government  service 
and  educate  them  on  the  scientific  side  while  they  are  getting  their 
practical  training.  The  question  arises  then,  How  shall  this  be  done  ? 

I  believe  that  any  plan  which  would  admit  graduates  of  the  col¬ 
leges  and  universities  to  the  Government  service  while  they  are  get- 


12 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


ing  their  professional  training,  is  bound  to  produce  good  results. 
The  plans  already  in  use  in  the  departments  referred  to  are  good 
methods.  The  plan  of  admitting  scientific  aids  as  pursued  for  a 
time  in  the  Department  of  Agriculture  was  a  good  one,  but,  judg¬ 
ing  from  our  experience  at  the  University  of  Cincinnati,  I  believe 
with  my  colleague,  Dean  Schneider,  who  recently  appeared  before 
you,  that  the  cooperative  plan  would  be  a  better  one. 

I  come  now  to  the  application  of  the  cooperative  plan  of  training 
experts. 


1  read  Dean  Schneider’s  excellent  speech  before  this  committee. 
He  explained  the  general  plan  to  you. 

Mr.  Towner.  Dean  Schnieider  only  told  us  of  his  views  on  the 
general  subject  of  vocational  education.  He  made  no  particular 
application  of  it  to  the  matter  before  the  committee,  i  would  be 
glad  if  you  would  go  into  that. 

Dr.  Dabney.  I  can  begin  vStli  this  plan  for  scientific  assistants 
in  the  Department  of  Agriculture.  The  plan  at  that  time  was  to  seek 
out  those  young  men  in  the  colleges  who  wanted  to  work  in  agronomy, 
in  agricultural  chemistry,  on  soils,  in  economic  biology  or  entomology, 
etc.,  and  bring  them  here  and  give  them  a  minor  position,  say  from 
$75  a  month  up,  and  put  them  in  the  Government  service  under 
professors  who  would  be  their  guides  and  teachers  while  they 
studied  in  the  institution  in  Washington. 

Mr.  Towner.  What  would  you  think  of  a  plan  of  allowing  such 
a  college  course  to  take  the  place  of  a  civil-service  examination  ? 

Dr.  Dabney.  I  doubt  very  much  whether  it  would  do  it.  The  Gov¬ 
ernment  examinations  are  necessary.  There  ought  to  be  some  special 
examination  or  inquiry  of  some  kind  to  find  out  whether  the  ap¬ 
plicant  is  specially  fitted  to  do  the  particular  work  which  he  aspires 
to  do.  But  that  would  be  a  minor  matter.  You  might  let  some 
agent  of  the  national  university  look  after  that. 

Mr.  Towner.  Assuming  that  the  place  sought  was  a  place  in  the 
Biological  Survey  of  the  Agricultural  Department  and  the  applicant 
had  a  diploma  from  the  school  of  biology  of  an  accredited  uni¬ 
versity,  would  you  say  that  was  sufficient  ? 

Dr.  Dabney.  The  department  might  desire  a  man  to  do  some 
particular  work — say  on  soils  or  on  crops.  Now,  you  would  prob¬ 
ably  find  a  good  many  graduates  in  biology,  but  -they  might  not  be 
particularly  fitted  for  that  work.  The  fact  that  a  man  was  a 
graduate  in  biology  might  not  be  enough.  No;  I  would  not  like  to 
commit  myself  to  the  broad  proposition  that  the  graduate  should 
be  given  a  place  just  because  he  is  a  graduate.  I  think  that  the 
head  of  the  bureau  ought  to  be  able  to  select  the  men  for  the  various 
branches  of  the  work  in  his  bureau.  There  are  so  many  kinds  of 
work  going  on  that  there  would  be  opportunities  for  many  of  the 
biological  graduates. 

Mr.  Fess.  I  had  a  statement,  a  worked-out  statement,  from  Dean 
Schneider  that  I  would  like  to  submit  in  answer  to  Judge  Towner’s 


Dr.  Dabney.  1  hope  you  will.  What  is  needed  from  this  point 
of  view  is  an  institution  to  act  as  a  clearing  house  between  the  col¬ 
leges  and  the  Government  laboratories. 

With  an  institution  in  Washington  of  the  type  of  the  national 
university  proposed,  or  at  least  of  the  modest  character  of  the  Wash- 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


.  13 

ington  institution  which  we  tried  to  start  here  in  the  late  nineties, 
hundreds  of  young  graduates  could  be  gotten  together  who  would  be 
glad  to  serve  the  Government  on  small  salaries  for  the  sake  of  the 
training  they  would  get.  Our  experience  in  Cincinnati  indicates 
that  the  Government  would  thus  get  the  highest  class  of  scientific 
service  at  the  smallest  expense.  But  this  should  not  be  the  chief 
consideration.  The  chief  object  should  be  to  open  up  the  Govern¬ 
ment  departments  for  the  purpose  of  educating  and  training  the- 
future  servants  of  the  country.  My  colleague  has,  however,  de¬ 
scribed  this  cooperative  plan  to  you  fully,  and  I  need  only  say  that  I 
heartily  indorse  all  of  his  opinions  and  sincerely  believe  that  the  plan 
can  be  successfully  applied  to  the  national  university.  There  is  no 
reason  in  the  world  why  this  class  of  students  might  not  do  the  rou¬ 
tine  technical  work  of  the  laboratories,  libraries,  museums,  statistical 
'offices,  and  other  bureaus  of  the  Government,  being  advanced  from 
one  class  of  work  to  another  as  they  got  the  knowledge  and  experi¬ 
ence. 

Another  great  service  that  a  national  university  might  render  the 
Government  would  be  the  correlation  of  the  different  Government 
scientific  departments.  I  need  not  tell  you  that  there  is  an  immense 
amount  of  duplication  of  work  among  these  departments,  resulting 
in  a  great  deal  of  waste  time  and  money.  Of  course,  this  is  not  de¬ 
signed;  it  results  from  the  way  in  which  the  Government  bureaus 
have  grown  up  independently  of  each  other. 

I  have  had  a  little  experience  along  that  line.  Members  of  Con¬ 
gress  know  how  a  new  bureau  in  the  Government  gets  started. 
Because  of  their  somewhat  mysterious  character  it  used  to  be  easier 
1  to  start  a  new  scientific  laboratory  than  any  other  new  bureau  in  the 
Government.  The  new  bureau  started  in  an  appropriation  bill. 
Some  bright  young  man  connected  with  some  scientific  laboratory 
thinks  of  some  line  of  work  that  would  be  of  some  value  to  the  Gov¬ 
ernment  and  he  begins  to  work  for  it.  In  the  old  days  he  did  not 
even  have  the  permission  of  the  Secretary,  but  he  or  his  friends  would 
come  before  a  committee  and  try  to  show  why  a  certain  new  bureau 
was  needed.  To-day  he  would  need  to  get  the  permission  of  his 
chief  and  the  Secretary,  but  that  is  still,  perhaps,  not  very  hard  to 
do.  You  gentlemen  know  how  these  things  come  up.  A  new  scheme 
is  presented  and  a  little  appropriation  is  asked  for,  perhaps  only 
$5,000  'or  $10,000,  and*  it  gets  into  the  appropriation  bill.  I  know  of 
a  little  bureau  in  one  of  the  departments  which  started  with  $5,000, 
and,  now  after  15  years,  it  gets  $400,000.  It  is  not  necessary  to  say 
whether  it  was  a  good  line  of  work  or  not.  That  bureau  now  has 
many  different  laboratories,  duplicating  to  a  certain  extent  the  work 
in  other  bureaus.  I  will  not  say  that  they  are  unnecessary,  but  it  is 
too  easy  to  duplicate  these  laboratories.  There  should  be  some  cen¬ 
tral  authority  to  coordinate  and  correlate  them. 

The  different  bureaus  are  doubtless  trying  faithfully  to  eliminate 
this  waste  within  their  own  field,  but  so  far  no  agent  has  been  found 
to  eliminate  this  duplication  as  between  the  different  departments 
and  bureaus.  Congress  has  from  time  to  time  made  honest  efforts 
to  eliminate  this  duplication  and  establish  better  correlation,  but  in 
the  nature  of  things  committees  or  commissions  can  not  do  it ;  it  is  a 
piece  of  work  that  requires  time,  patience,  and  scientific  ability.  To 
take  a  single  illustration:  The  last  time  I  made  a  count  (in  1901) 


14 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


the  Government  had  seven  different  chemical  laboratories  in  Wash¬ 
ington.  I  expect  that  a  number  of  others  have  been  established  since 
Now,  chemistry  is  chiefly  a  tool  used  by  the  Government  in  its  scien¬ 
tific  and  economic  work ;  it  is  just  one  method  of  testing  and  measur¬ 
ing  things.  The  principles  and  methods  by  which  this  testing  and 
measuring  is  done  are  for  the  most  part  the  same  in  all  departments. 
Why,  therefore,  should  there  not  be  in  Washington  one  great  chemical 
'laboratory,  like  a  great  factory,  in  which  all  the  chemists  here  occupied 
might  be  given  laboratories,  remaining  still  under  the  various  depart¬ 
ments  ?  The  ma j ority  of  them  are  carrying  on  their  work  at  the  present 
time  in  rented  buildings  inferior  to  any  of  those  in  the  universities 
and  under  conditions  that  are  not  especially  favorable  or  stimulating. 
A  central  plant  in  which  all  the  chemists  would  be  brought  together 
would  not  only  help  to  eliminate  duplication  and  promote  economy, 
but  would,  by  encouraging  personal  contact  and  discussion,  greatly 
improve  the  chemists  and  the  work.  The  same  is  true  of  the  bio¬ 
logical,  medical,  and  other  services  of  the  Government. 

But  this  brings  up  the  great  question  of  the  proper  housing  of  the 
Government  scientific  bureaus,  laboratories,  and  libraries,  a  question 
too  large  to  be  discussed  at  this  time.  Aside  from  the  question  of 
housing,  however,  there  can  be  no  doubt  that  a  central  scientific  in¬ 
stitution  could  do  a  great  deal  to  correlate  and  otherwise  improve  the 
work  of  all  the  Government  scientific  departments. 

Another  consideration  in  advocating  a  national  university  of  this 
type  is  the  duty  of  utilizing  these  vast  stores  of  scientific  material  in 
Washington  as  completely  as  possible  for  the  ndvancement  of  knowl¬ 
edge.  It  is  a  well-known  fact  that  the  demands  for  immediate  eco¬ 
nomic  results  by  the  Government  compel  its  scientific  staff  to  devote 
their  energies  almost  exclusively  to  the  study  of  problems  having 
practical  ends.  The  rich  materials  for  the  advancement  of  pure 
science  are  thus  necessarily  neglected  in  a  large  measure.  If  in  each 
of  the  Government  scientific  bureaus  there  were  a  number  of  ad¬ 
vanced  students  working  on  their  material  with  reference  to  the  ad¬ 
vancement  of  pure  science,  the  world  would  certainly  get  a  much 
larger  output  of  results.  The  utilization  of  material  by  a  limited 
number  of  students  of  this  character  need  not  interfere  at  all  with  its 
use  for  economic  results.  On  the  other  hand,  a  complete  scientific 
study  of  the  material  would  undoubtedly  greatly  promote  the  effi¬ 
ciency  of  the  departments  in  reaching  the  itnmediate  results  de¬ 
manded  by  the  Government.  The  presence  and  work  of  advanced 
students  would  undoubtedly  greatly  improve  the  work  of  the  Govern¬ 
ment  scientific  staff  itself. 

It  is  conceded  by  all  educational  authorities  also  that  the  investi¬ 
gator  who  is  doing  a  limited  amount  of  teaching  does  the  best  work 
for  the  advancement  of  science.  Teaching  makes  it  necessary  for  a 
man  to  go  over  his  subject  broadly,  and  the  presence  of  young  and 
earnest  minds  is  always  very  stimulating  to  the  investigator.  The 
man  who  spends  all  of  his  time  in  particular  research  too  often  loses 
his  connection  with  everything  else,  with  the  result  that  he  becomes 
buried  in  one  subject.  The  greatest  investigators  have  always  been 
great  teachers.  It  is  fully  believed,  therefore,  that  a  reasonable 
amount  of  teaching  would  not  injure  but  would  improve  the  scien¬ 
tific  staff  of  the  Government  at  Washington. 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


15 


There  is  another  consideration,  however,  which  appears  to  me  to  be 
more  important  than  any  of  those  mentioned  so  far,  and  that  is  the 
influence  that  the  faculty  and  students  of  the  national  university 
would  have  upon  the  entire  Government,  Congress,  and  the  executive 
departments,  as  well  as  these  scientific  bureaus  and  surveys.  We  have 
in  mind,  of  course,  the  new  type  of  a  university  and  not  the  ancient 
cloistered  institution.  The  time  was  when  universities  considered 
themselves  as  things  apart  from  real  life,  but  in  these  days  the  uni-’ 
versity  is  making  itself  more  and  more  the  servant  of  the  people. 
Some  years  ago  we  used  to  hear  a  good  deal  about  “  university  exten¬ 
sion  ” ;  that  is,  about  the  plans  of  extending  the  instruction  given  by 
the  university  to  the  ordinary  people.  In  these  days  the  university 
seeks  to  live  among  the  people  and  work  with  them  all  the  time.  We 
are  familiar  now  with  the  splendid  work  being  done,  for  example,  by 
the  University  of  Wisconsin.  You  know  the  extent  to  which  the 
State  of  Wisconsin  uses  the  members  of  its  faculty  on  its  various  com¬ 
missions;  you  are  also  familiar  with  the  remarkable  work  of  the 
legislative  reference  bureau  and  of  the  Industrial  Commission  of 
Wisconsin.  Through  such  measures  the  university  has  become  a  part 
of  the  living  organism  that  wre  call  the  State  of  Wisconsin,  the  brain 
commanding  every  part  of  the  body  politic.  As  a  result,  we  all 
recognize  Wisconsin  as  one  of  the  most  progressive  of  our  States,  the 
one  to  wdiich  we  all  look  for  new  ideas  in  government.  We  may  not 
approve  of  all  the  different  political  and  economic  experiments  they 
are  trying  in  Wisconsin,  but  it  certainly  is  most  important  that  these 
experiments  should  be  tried  out  in  the  scientific  and  efficient  way  in 
«  which  they  are  being  tested  under  the  direction  of  the  University  of 
Wisconsin. 

My  thought  is,  therefore,  that  the  national  university  at  Washing¬ 
ton  would  serve  the  National  Government  in  the  same  wav  that  the 

#  t  c/ 

University  of  Wisconsin  serves  the  State  of  Wisconsin — it  would  fur¬ 
nish  a  great  board  of  experts  here  at  the  National  Capital  to  study, 
counsel,  and  advise  about  all  our  great  scientific,  'economic,  industrial, 
educational,  and  social  problems.  It  has  been  proposed,  for  example, 
that  there  should  be  a  national  legislative  reference  bureau.  The 
national  university  would  itself  be  such  a  bureau. 

Right  here  let  me  refer  to  that  old  argument  against  the  national 
university  that  the  politicians  would  be  certain  to  interfere  with  it. 
Anyone  who  is  familiar  with  the  work  of  these  new  State  universities 
is  bound  to  be  amused  at  this.  In  the  old  days,  while  the  universities 
were  being  established,  and  before  they  asserted  themselves,  they  were 
more  or  less  interfered  with  by  the  politicians.  That  was  a  kind  of 
diseases  that  belonged  in  the  childhood  of  our  institutions.  But  since 
the  universities  have  been  established  and  have  filled  the  legislatures 
with  their  graduates,  the  thing  works  the  other  way.  Instead  of  the 
politicians  running  the  universities,  the  universities  of  the  country  are 
more  and  more  directing  the  economic  and  governmental  work  done 
by  the  legislators. 

Let  me  illustrate  by  a  State  university.  I  went  once  to  see  that 
grand  old  man,  the  greatest  president  of  any  State  university — Dr. 
James  B.  Angell — and  he  told  about  some  legislation  he  was  ad¬ 
vocating  for  a  State  system  of  education.  After  he  explained  the 
matter,  which  elicited  my  keen  interest,  I  said,  “  Doctor,  your  legis¬ 
lature  is  in  session.  I  suppose  you  will  go  to  Lansing  and  see  about 


16 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


it.”  He  said,  “  No;  I  shall  not.  I  have  many  of  my  boys  there.  All  I 
need  to  do  is  to  tell  them  what  ought  be  done  and  they  will  do  it.” 
President  Angell  was,  of  course,  supreme  in  Michigan;  but  this  shows 
what  an  influence  a  State  university  can  exert. 

A  national  university  in  Washington,  officered  by  the  wisest  and 
best  scholars  in  this  country,  would,  in  my  opinion,  exert  far  more 
influence  upon  Congress  than  Congress  would  exert  upon  it.  In 
fact,  it  is  ridiculous  to  charge  that  any  considerable  number  of  Mem¬ 
bers  of  Congress  can  be  found  who  would  be  so  silly  as  to  undertake 
to  influence  the  thinking,  teaching,  and  counseling  men  competent  to 
fill  the  chairs  and  work  in  the  laboratories  of  a  national  university. 
In  my  opinion,  you  would  find  that  a  fine  spirit  of  cooperation  would 
soon  grow  up  and  that  Members  of  Congress  would  constantly  ap¬ 
peal  to  the  faculty  of  the  university  to  advise  and  help  them  in* their 
work  for  the  country. 

In  conclusion,  let  me  recall  another  personal  illustration  with 
which  you  may  be  partly  familiar.  Some  30  years  ago  a  young  man, 
a  graduate  student  in  a  neighboring  university,  came  here  to  Wash¬ 
ington  to  study.  Every  week  for  a  year  or  more  while  studying  in 
the  university  that  young  man  came  here  to  these  halls  to  study  the 
system  of  government  of  his  country.  He  passed  through  these  halls, 
he  visited  the  committees,  and  sat  long  hours  in  the  galleries  of  the 
House  and  Senate.  He  studied  in  the  libraries  and  in  the  depart¬ 
ments  and  so  collected  the  material  for  the  dissertation  on  which  he 
was  granted  the  doctor’s  degree.  Last  year  that  young  man  stood 
at  the  Clerk’s  desk  in  the  House  of  Representatives  and,  for  the  first 
time  since  Washington,  delivered  a  presidential  message  to  Con¬ 
gress.  Gentlemen,  do  you  not  think  it  was  worth  while  to  give  that 
young  man  the  opportunity  to  study  in  Washington?  Woodrow 
Wilson  got  his  training  in  that  way.  In  just  that  way  many  other 
young  men  could  get  a  similar  training  if  they  had  the  same  oppor¬ 
tunity.  President  Wilson  made  his  book  on  Congressional  Govern¬ 
ment  first  as  a  thesis  in  preparation  for  his  college  examination. 
You  know  what  a  valuable  book  it  has  been.  Do  you  not  believe 
that  if  100  young  men  had  been  given  the  same  opportunity  that 
young  man  had  we  would  have  now  in  the  departments  in  Washing¬ 
ton  and  in  the  States  more  polished  scholars  like  Woodrow  Wilson? 
If  the  departments  could  be  opened  up  to  such  young  men,  we  would 
soon  have  thousands  here  studying  the  problems  of  this  country. 

Mr.  Platt.  Is  it  not  true  that  the  departments  are  open  to  such 
men  as  Woodrow  Wilson  to-day? 

Dr.  Dabney.  Yes,  to  a  very  limited  extent  ;  but  how  many  young 
men  know  how  to  find  these  things?  Wilson  was  the  pioneer.  Per¬ 
haps  other  young  men  lacked  the  initiative,  the  energy,  and  judg¬ 
ment,  but  I  believe  Wilson  owed  something  to  the  direction  of  the 
great  professors  at  Baltimore. 

Mr.  Platt.  But  this  bill  -says  that  no  man  who  has  not  a  M.  A. 
degree  can  come  here. 

Dr.  Dabney.  Well,  Wilson  had  a  college  degree,  and  undoubtedly 
there  were  not  many  Woodrow  Wilsons  at  that  time  or  perhaps 
very  many  since.  But  his  example  shows  what  a  young  scholar 
may  do  for  science  here.  You  know  that  his  book  on  “Congres¬ 
sional  Government  ”  is  the  first  book  we  had  giving  the  method  of 
the  work  of  the  Congress.  Is  it  not  remarkable  that  no  man  wrote 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


17 


such  a  book  until  1883,  and  that  it  was  written  then  by  a  college 
student?  You  recall  also  that  an  Englishman  had  to  come  to  Wash¬ 
ington  to  write  the  first  complete  textbook  on  the  “  American  Com¬ 
monwealth  ” — James  Bryce,  now  Viscount  Bryce,  until  recently  am¬ 
bassador  of  Great  Britain  to  our  country.  This  joint  illustration 
certainly  shows  clearly  that  we  need  scholars  here  to  work  up  these 
problems  and  make  these  books  for  us. 

Mr.  Rupley.  Is  our  present  system  of  education  not  changing  our 
Government  from  a  representative  democracy  to  a  more  modified 
form  of  pure  democracy  ? 

Dr.  Dabney.  I  suppose  the  tendency  is  in  that  direction,  because 
we  are  educating  all  the  people.  It  is  making  more  men  who  are 
competent  to  really  represent  the  people  in  the  work  that  is  to  be 
done  for  the  Government.  Our  Government  is  becoming  as  the  re¬ 
sult  of  more  complete  public  education  a  more  representative  de¬ 
mocracy. 

Mr.  Rupley.  Again,  is  it  not  probable  that  this  may  bring  up  a 
violent  condition  in  our  affairs,  social  and  otherwise - 

Dr.  Dabney  (interposing).  Violent?  I  do  not  know  what  you 
mean  by  a  violent  condition.  I  do  not  see  why  it  should  be.  We 
started  out  here  in  America  to  establish  a  democratic  system  of  gov¬ 
ernment,  a  government,  as  Lincoln  said,  “  by  the  people,  for  the 
people,  and  of  the  people.”  There  is  therefore  no  way  to  make  it 
a  success  except  by  educating  all  the  people.  Do  you  mean  to  say 
that  it  is  necessary  to  keep  some  of  the  people  ignorant?  No; 
equal  opportunity  for  all  must  be  the  rule  in  all  our  educational 
plans,  as  Dean  James  says.  A  system  of  education  is  a  winnowing 
machine  which  enables  every  man  to  find  the  right  plane  for  his 
work.  The  idea  is  to  develop  the  God-given  power  in  every  man 
to  work  in  the  place  where  he  serve  his  country  and  fellow  men  best. 

Mr.  Rupley.  When  I  said  violence,  I  did  not  use  the  word  in  the 
ordinary  acceptation  of  it,  but  I  had  in  mind  changed  conditions 
and  unsettled  governmental  conditions. 

Dr.  Dabney.  No;  I  do  not  think  any  such  conditions  would  result 
from  the  enlargement  of  our  plans  of  higher  education  by  establish¬ 
ing  a  national  university.  I  believe  the  more  wisdom  and  training 
men  have  the  better  and  truer  citizens  they  are.  I  think  a  violent 
change  is  much  more  liable  to  occur  in  a  country  where  the  educated 
people  are  few  and  the  many  are  left  uneducated.  This  is,  of  course, 
a  truism. 

Mr.  Platt.  Doctor,  I  asked  you  a  question  as  to  whether  or  not 
the  departments  are  now  open  to  real  research  students?  Would  a 
national  university  composed  exclusively  of  an  examining  board 
answer  the  purposes  and  let  the  men  do  their  research  work  any¬ 
where? 

Dr.  Dabney.  No  ;  I  think  study  and  investigation  should  be  pro¬ 
vided  for.  The  University  of  London  and  the  other  universities  of 
England  are  giving  up  that  system  and  all  becoming  teaching  uni¬ 
versities.  In  that  connection  I  will  refer  you  to  the  report  of  the 
Royal  Commission  on  the  London  University.  It  is  found  in  the 
London  Bluebook.  The  London  University  was  for  a  long  time 
merely  an  examining  university.  It  is  now  to  be  a  complete  uni¬ 
versity,  with  teaching  departments  fully  developed. 


18 


NATIONAL  UNIVERSITY. 


Mr.  Platt.  Well,  it  would  naturally  develop  in  the  course  of  time 
to  what  it  now  is. 

Dr.  Dabney.  We  need  trained  civil  servants  for  every  part  of  the 
Government  work.  We  need  trained  scientific  men  and  an  educated 
civil  service  in  every  department.  What  the  Nation  needs  above  all 
is  trained  legislators.  In  this  country  the  vast  majority  of  our  legis¬ 
lators  and  public  servants  are  amateurs.  It  is  not  so  to  such  an  extent 
in  England  or  on  the  Continent.  Look  at  Germany,  with  its  most 
magnificent  corps  of  trained  public  servants.  I  think  the  proposed 
national  university  would  help  greatly  to  produce  such  a  class  of 
public  servants  for  our  country.  I  thank  you. 

The  Chairman.  Doctor,  we  are  very  glad  to  have  had  you  with  us 
to-night. 

Mr.  Powers.  Will  any  of  the  gentlemen  we  will  hear  tonight  enter 
into  a  discussion  of  the  efforts  that  have  been  made  heretofore  to  have 
Congress  take  up  the  question  of  a  national  university? 

Mr.  Fess.  That  is  already  in  the  first  hearing.  Mr.  Chairman,  I 
presume  there  is  more  intellectual  and  administrative  ability  in  this 
room  gathered  about  this  table  than  can  be  heard  to-night,  and  as  it 
is  now  10  o’clock  and  there  are  gentlemen  here  from  Wyoming  and 
Tennessee  and  the  far  West,  I  think  that  when  we  adjourn  we  ought 
to  continue  these  hearings  to-morrow  morning.  I  move  that  when 
we  adjourn  to-night  we  adjourn  to  meet  to-morrow  morning  at  10.30. 

Mr.  Powers.  I  second  the  motion. 

(The  motion  was  agreed  to.) 

The  Chairman.  I  now  take  pleasure  in  presenting  Dr.  Duniway, 
of  the  University  of  Wyoming. 


o 


